Admirer or Disciple?

One of the people whose works and writings have profoundly affected my view of God, or of following Jesus, and who still inspire me is Clarence Jordan. Clarence was a graduate of the University of Georgia with a degree in Agriculture, then went on to Southern Seminary and earned a Masters and Doctorate. He was a farmer and a New Testament scholar. In the early 1940's Jordan and his wife found a piece of property in Sumter County near Americus Georgia and founded "Koinonia Farm", an experiment in Christian community that crossed the racial boundaries that so characterized the South of that time.

During this time Clarence approached his brother Robert Jordan, later state senator and justice of the Georgia Supreme Court, asking him to represent Koinonia Farm legally. His brother replied, “Clarence, I can’t do that. You know my political aspirations. Why, if I represented you, I might lose my job, my house, everything I’ve got.” 

“We might lose everything, too, Bob,” Clarence reminded him. 

Jordan continued, “I remember, it seems to me, that you and I joined the church the same Sunday, as boys. I expect when we came forward the preacher asked me about the same question he did you. He asked me, ‘Do you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior?’ and I said, ‘Yes.’ What did you say?”

“I follow Jesus, Clarence, up to a point,” Robert replied.

“Could that point be…the cross?” asked Clarence pointedly.

“That’s right. I follow him to the cross, but not on the cross. I’m not getting myself crucified.”

Clarence said, “Then I don’t believe you’re a disciple. You’re an admirer of Jesus, but not a disciple of his. I think you ought to go back to the church you belong to, and tell them you’re an admirer, not a disciple.”

Ouch!

But isn't that true of more of us than we'd like to admit? We get squeezed between our professed love for Jesus and "the real world" of work, of money, of family, of status, of class, of rank, of whatever, and that old tempter starts whispering sweet nothings in our ear. And we listen, especially when we're hard pressed. Instead of setting our faces like flint, we gradually turn away from the hard path, the tough places thinking that movement away will bring the comfort and blessings we really want and believe we deserve.

29 “Yes,” Jesus replied, “and I assure you that everyone who has given up house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the Kingdom of God,30 will be repaid many times over in this life, and will have eternal life in the world to come.”

Luke 18:29-30 (NLT)

When are we going to learn that we cannot out give God? When will we realize that the way "forward" means leaving the values of this world behind? When will we follow Jesus past "that point"?

Lots of people are stuck because they use the wrong standard of measurement. Are you faithfully following Jesus? Then let no one keep you from continuing.

But if you are not... if you are primarily interested in how you benefit... if it's always about YOU.

Then go back in repentance to the church you belong to and tell them you are sorry and that you want to be a follower, not an admirer.

A New Thing - An Old Thing - And I Hope, A God Thing

One of the things we did when we went to New Orleans was to head to the levee to see the Mississippi River. Of course I had seen it from that spot before, but no one would ever claim that I had seen the same river - the water I saw years ago had long since found it's way into the Gulf. It's that way with families and it's that way with churches. We're realizing more and more that the church that we were five years ago, even two years ago isn't the church we are now. So we are staying focused on our mission to Love God, Love People, and Serve All but we're looking for ways to grow deeper and reach farther.

One of the new opportunities coming are "Life Transformation Groups" or "Triads."

These are groups of three men who get together every two weeks (or every week if they decide to) and spend an hour with each other. They read the same Scriptures during the time between meetings, then meet and discuss what God has said in their hearts. They pray for each other, sharing personal and other requests, and are accountable to each other. Many groups use a series of accountability questions to help in the accountability process. What I'm praying that will happen is that these groups will find that in meeting together - sharing in each other's growth in Christ, in their daily prayer needs, and their lives - that each and every one of the men that participate will find their walk strengthened and bonds formed that will last a lifetime.

In the beginning, I'm going to be involved in every group that's formed. Once the groups go through a semester, we'll step back and see which of them can then go and form another group. But I'm really praying that this will be one of those moments that we as a church will look back on in a few years and see as the beginning of a move to another level.

It's going to be a busy summer - Mission Trip to Kentucky leaves next weekend. The RA boys are going for the first time to camp this year at Blue Springs. We're helping with the "Moving Wall" in a couple of weeks. We've got our second annual "Rice and Beans" focus coming in July to help with the work of Amazima. So be praying that God will lead us out of it stronger and with more influence for Christ in our community.

Sunday nights are for thinking

We've had two back to back full weekends at New Hope. Last weekend it was Saturday in the Park. This weekend was the rain-cancelled Relay for Life and the Worship Workshop. It's been busy, busy, busy. New Hope's people have stepped out to serve and up to learn more about how to worship Jesus.

Saturday in the Park, though shortened by rain, was still one of the most fun events I have ever been a part of, with the most impact. We're still seeing results from it in both the response from people and the continuing purchase of items that we sell with 100% of the proceeds going to organizations that are doing something about changing the lives of those in need around the world. Hunger, clean water, human trafficking, orphan care - these are areas that we at New Hope cannot possibly fix. But we can DO SOMETHING! and we are.
As much as doing something is part of who we are though, being someone who lives with the heart and mind of Christ has to balance that out. It's not faith or works - it's faith AND works.

So I'm sitting here tonight praying and reflecting on what we have done and will do that builds faith in individual members and that builds up the congregation's faith. We took a step in that direction with the worship workshop. Melanie Winter brought a deep love of Jesus and a skill set that is at the level that we want to get to as a worship team. She challenged us and prodded us to look at what we were doing, and what we could do to improve. It meant change. We changed a few things and more are to come. But I really believe we improved in worship today and will make more strides as time goes by. Thanks Melanie!

There's more to do though.

We have to build on the love that motivates us to do. We have to grow in our ability to disciple kids, youth, and adults of all ages. Our Kidmo children's program and the coming children's church time has really upped our impact in that area. I dropped in there this morning and the room was full. Few sights warm a pastor's heart more than seeing dedicated and caring teachers pouring out their love through discipleship. Since we began Kidmo, we have people looking for ways to get in there.How cool is that? Turns the old "nominating committee" on its head when people rush toward working in what typically can be tough to fill.

As a result, we may be looking at other changes in our discipleship strategy. How can we best help young minds and hearts be opened to the call of Christ to come and follow? Who are the right people to gather into groups and who would be the best at pointing them into the Word and toward faith in Jesus? When should they meet and where? What materials should be used?

Changes. Changes. Changes.

Why? We have an awesome group of people at New Hope who are DOING SOMETHING about the things that break the heart of God. Once you are part of the New Hope family you step into an embrace of love as tight as any I have ever known. We LOVE being together. But we have to grow deeper - reach further. Love for Jesus doesn't reach a point and stay there - if it's real, it grows all throughout the life of the believer.

5 So don't lose a minute in building on what you've been given, complementing your basic faith with good character, spiritual understanding, 6 alert discipline, passionate patience, reverent wonder, 7 warm friendliness, and generous love, each dimension fitting into and developing the others. 8 With these qualities active and growing in your lives, no grass will grow under your feet, no day will pass without its reward as you mature in your experience of our Master Jesus.
2 Peter 1:5-8 (MSG)

"Building on what you've been give..." is exactly what we need to do. Seeing believers grow from initial curiosity about Jesus, to love for Jesus, and through to maturity is what we need to make sure we are constantly seeing. We are seeing it now, but we can do better.

So pray with me. Pray that the God Who began His work in us would draw us deeper to Him.

Sunday Recap Oct 11 2009

Today New Hope met to worship Almighty God and ordain Craig Bryan as a deacon.

We kicked it off with Bob Dylan's "Got To Serve Somebody", and moved through "Indescribable" and "Offering." The invitation song was "I Surrender All."



The take away points were:

- Humility comes before honor. Until we humble ourselves before God, we cannot expect God's best in our lives. We're not ready. If we humble ourselves, in due time God will lift us up.
- No one can be a servant without a master. Accepting the information about Jesus as fact isn't enough to produce change. We have to place ourselves under God's authority and accept His will as our way.
- No one can serve two masters. There is no way that God's and the world's values can coexist. We must follow Jesus.
- Doing acts of kindness isn't nearly as transformational as being kind and acting out of who you are at the core. But as you deny yourself and follow Jesus in your actions, you will find yourself more able to conform to Christ's image.

You gotta serve somebody - Jesus

Here's My Question - Does Anyone Ever Graduate From Sunday School?

The folks in the picture gathered in 1915. Wonder how many are still in that class?

Seriously. Does anyone ever reach the point that Sunday School doesn't add anything to their walk with Christ? People sit in the same room on the same chairs for decades. Shouldn't we expect more?

If it was public school they'd finally promote them out. Maybe we should too.

"Congratulations! You have been promoted to nursery worker!"

"We're so proud of what you have learned! Now come and help with children's church."

"Hey, saw you finished Sunday School. Now you can help with the shut-ins!"

Doesn't sound crazy to me.

Planting the Seed

We all have a life that we’re rather attached to, with people, places, things, and activities that we are comfortable with. My life may not be perfect, but it is familiar. And it’s mine. The Lord invites me not just to give up dessert for a few weeks, but to give up myself. He asks me to die to my own plans, my own will, and put my destiny entirely in his hands. Incidentally, that is what baptism is supposed to mean–that it is no longer I that live, but Christ that lives in me (Gal 2:19b-20). That I’m no longer in the driver’s seat, but I’ve put Jesus there. That all that is dearest to me, I’ve put on the altar, and will only take it back if the Lord gives it back.

Why would we do such a radical thing? Only if we truly believe that planting the seed of our lives and dreams in the fertile soil of the Lord’s vineyard will produce much fruit. That we, like the apostles, will grow to be more than we’d ever hoped we’d be. That he would do through us, as through them, more than we’d ever dreamt possible. From Here

Lord Bless This Mess

What if genuine faith begins with admitting we will never have our act completely together? Maybe messy disciples are exactly the kind of imperfect people Jesus came to earth for and whose company he actually enjoyed--and still enjoys. If you want to find Jesus today, look for him in the midst of burned-out believers, moral misfits, religious incompetents . . . men and women whose lives are, well, messy. The poor in spirit if you will. I heard Jesus said they were "Blessed"

And who desperately cling to Jesus

Mike Yaconelli wrote this:

“Turns out all of the biblical characters were a complex mix of strengths and weaknesses. David, Abraham, Lot, Saul, Solomon, Rahab, and Sarah were God-loving, courageous, brilliant, fearless, loyal, passionate, committed holy men and women who were also murderers, adulterers, and manic depressives. They were men and women who could be gentle, holy, defenders of the faith one minute, and insecure, mentally unstable, unbelieving, shrewd, lying, grudge-holding tyrants the next.”

Yeah buddy. We got issues.

But to quote Jesus - "Who needs a doctor - the healthy or the sick?"

Lord, what once I had done with youthful might,
Had I been from the first true to the truth,
Grant me, now old, to do - with better sight,
And humbler heart, if not the brain of youth;
So wilt thou, in thy gentleness and truth,
Lead back thy old soul, by the path of pain,
Round to his best - young eyes and heart and brain.

--- George MacDonald, "The Diary of an Old Soul"

Where In the World Is God At Work?

If you look to the right, (if you can tear your eyes away from Canaan's picture) you'll see a badge for the "Red Letters Campaign." They are doing some awesome work in reaching "the least of these" with the love of Jesus. I received an email about a week ago from them about some new initiatives and opportunities for smaller faith communities like ours. So I wrote for more information and am praying that God might use us too- to love Canaan and his brothers and sisters.

As I've said before, I believe that compassion is learned by doing compassionate acts, and serving is learned through service. "Book Learning" isn't nearly enough.

So pray that God will reveal whether we're about to join Him in another adventure. :)

And here are ten things you can do right now to help them in their work from their website.

10 Things You Can Do Now:

1. Connect through Facebook
2. Support Project Ethiopia
3. Follow Adoption Journals
4. Answer Blog Buzz Questions
5. Feed Ethiopian Orphans Today
6. Drill Water Wells in Nigeria
7. Poverty Projects for Kids
8. Get a Blog Badge
9. Follow RLC on Twitter
10. Subscribe to RLC Blog

Go over there!

Doesn't Work

The admittedly satirical and mocking photoshop above reminded me of a rant I've been saving up. I know people sometimes don't really apply themselves to their relationship with God. Then they comment as they walk away "This doesn't work."

It's like we see sometimes when people come to the ocean.

They stand on the beach and complain about the sea creatures, whine about the sand being hot to their feet, or wonder what idiot came up with the warning flag colors. In short, they do everything except dive in themselves.

But the expectation in the church seems to be -

No worries, because to the rescue comes "SUPER PASTOR".

Well on behalf of pastors everywhere, but speaking personally for me alone.

Not

I don't have enough...

- Love to supply what you lack. If you are going to be in a relationship with Jesus, you can't rent someone else to love Him for you. I'll love you, try to help you get into a position where you can experience His love, but it's in giving of yourself to Him and for Him with your neighbors that you'll see the most growth in your love for Him. No one can do that for you.

- Answers to fill in all your gaps. There's something I read once about working out your own salvation with fear and trembling. It's not always celebration - this Way with Jesus. Sometimes you are scared out of your skin, or wondering if He's really there. And in those times, when you force yourself deeper into Him even though all your feelings are telling you RUN!, your faith begins to take root, grow deep, mature. Can I point you to Scriptures, offer books, give you the benefit of my experience with God? Sure. But I can't do your hard work of trusting God when it doesn't make sense. I can't wait on God for you.

- Time to read what you should be reading for yourself. If you are depending on your pastor to take your place in Bible study, it's a little like pretending watching football is getting you in shape. Ain't gonna happen.

We return you now to your regularly scheduled "Joel Osteen Hour of Personal Power"

Seeds of Changed Lives

How do you reach people today who have no need for "church"? How do you get on their radar screen at all? You can do vibrant worship (and you should), have awesome children's ministry (ditto), and teach biblical truth (amen) but they don't come.

So you try "events" (and you should), but they are of limited effect. First because Las Vegas and Disney do it better, and secondly because they don't really attach themselves to spiritual needs.

Nancy Ortberg, in this month's Rev. Magazine is helpful when she writes:

(emphasis mine)

We have to move beyond our own "defining moments" and live out authentic, biblical, God-centered community that becomes a magnetic apologetic for the gospel. I think this demands a new kind of leadership.

For nine years when my husband, John, and I lived in Chicago, we had neighbors who wouldn't come to church with us. It wasn't for lack of an invitation. In fact we'd mention when either of us was preaching that we'd love to have them join us. We even threw in a free lunch as a sort of consolation prize, but nothing. Then one spring day, the husband came bounding over to me in our front yard and asked when services were that weekend.

That week someone they worked with was the recipient of a free car that our church had given away to a single parent. It was a ministry that was a few years' old, which regularly gave scores of cars away each year. No strings attached. Our neighbors were absolutely blown away by this gesture and wanted to "check out" a church where people lived their lives in such a generous fashion. It wasn't a sermon, it wasn't even our friendship with them or a free lunch…it was the lifestyle of someone at our church that got their attention.

Leadership for this new age must focus on how we live. A dramatic moment may create suspicion at worst and a reaction at best; a lifestyle of generosity and selflessness that reflects Christ captures attention. We must strive to create biblical community, not just great weekend services.

If there's one thing I have learned over the past few years it is this - an authentic Christian lifestyle of compassion, generosity, kindness, and authenticity will open far more doors than the latest postcard from Outreach Specialties ever could.

As a church, we have to be constantly looking for opportunities to "fly", like the dandelion seed, into the soil of the neighborhoods around us. It's not enough to be at the baseball games, we need to serve in the concession stand, rake the field, coach. It;s not enough to be in the school PTO, we need to be on the principal's speed dial.

I laughed the other night when Amy Anderson, our embed at Valparaiso Elementary, said she was sitting in her classroom prior to Tropical Storm Fay's approach and a voice boomed over the intercom. "Mrs. Anderson?" Amy said she was pretty sure God would just call her Amy, but still...

"Yes?"

"Do you think that church of yours would have any sandbags?"

Amy said she managed to answer, "I don't think so" and the principal thanked her and ended the conversation. But then she thought "We're In! We're on his speed-dial! If he'll ask for such an odd thing from a church, he must genuinely think we'd do anything to help."

He's right.

Hey friends - who are the people in your neighborhood? What are the points of entry into the networks of school, daycare, scouts, little league, soccer etc.? Where does the Red Cross set up at? What other organization really could use the church's help?

Take a look around. We'll pick up this thread later.

Change-Up

We finished Romans a couple of weeks ago on Wednesday nights. It was the latest in the Walk through the Bible plan that began over two years ago. We went from Genesis through Numbers and then skipped over to Romans out of a need to take a break from the OT.

But last week and then again tonight, I'm throwing a "change-up". We're reviewing, fleshing out, going over and hopefully discussing what I taught on Sunday morning. In my dreams, we'd have one core concept or principle each week that would be taught in various venues and at various times. A "Big Idea" if you will. The Lifeway Extra people were trying this several years ago, but in reverse. They were suggesting that the pastor teach in harmony with the Sunday School lessons.

The guiding principle is sound though.

Reduce the current 3-5 messages on different topics, none of which really stick, to one core principle repeated and reinforced. From floodlight to laser.

So tonight I'll be helping people continue to explore the process of recovering from their hurts. I read all 8 of the sermons that tie in with Saddleback's "Celebrate Recovery" program this morning, and once again, Rick Warren was on the mark. So I expect some of that will come out tonight as well.

It made me wonder if the churches of Valparaiso shouldn't cooperate to begin that program here. Yes, the mega-monster across the bay does it. But it might be that a smaller "sister" program might work well too.

Just a random thought.

"He didn't just step outside the box, he set it on fire!"

We had a meeting yesterday for about 30 minutes after church to talk about what to do with our youth. This is a smaller church and try as we might, all the people in it won't conform and neatly distribute themselves so that our Sunday School classes stay balanced.

This year we have a pretty good number moving from middle to high school, and our youth pastor felt that this was the time to try some "radical ideas." We worked through all that, and then they asked me if I had any suggestions.

"Yes, move worship to 9:30, kill Sunday school entirely in favor of small groups, and run a children's worship alongside the adult one and use the youth to lead it."

One shocked attendee said "He didn't just step outside the box, he set it on fire." Everyone laughed. If they only knew. If they only knew.

Tonight I was reading a little concerning the viability of replacing Sunday School and came across an article written by Josh Hunt. I've benefited from Josh's work over the years, so I give his opinion some serious weight. Here's what he wrote about the move to ditch Sunday School for small groups.

Sunday School or Home Groups?

In short, when people speak of the demise of Sunday School and the glory of home groups, what they normally speak of is the negative qualities of BAD Sunday School. And, they sometimes speak of home groups in a rather idealized way. Are there no bad homes groups, led by sleepy leaders?

At the end of the day, home groups don't work. Sunday School doesn't work. Visitation doesn't work. Giving Friday Nights to Jesus doesn't work. What works? People work. People work through home groups and Sunday School and visitation and giving Friday nights to Jesus. Ultimate it is the talent and dedication, not plan or program that is the key variable. (emphasis mine)

Show me a talented and dedicated Sunday School teacher, and I will show you a thriving group. Show me a sleepy, distracted, or ungifted Sunday School teacher, and I will show you a languishing class. The same is true with home groups. It is all about leadership. It is all about people.

I think Josh is right, again. But I also think he's left something out that's vital to helping youth grow in their faith. They need to be involved in service to others within the church. There's far too much information transfer and far too little transformation.

We're working hard to move our church outside the walls, and we need to put some of our teenagers on the front lines. They need to learn about commitment, sacrifice, and living out loud their passion for Jesus.

We'll be working on that.

Succinct and to the point

"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me."
(Galatians 2:20)

There, I found your problem. Dead people don't have rights.

HT: Finishing Well

Interesting quote, and an interesting blog that it came from. Take a look. Might want to add it to your reader.

Modern Parables

The power of story. Jesus knew it and used it effectively to get people to remember what he said and apply it to life. Many times I've had people tell me they remember illustrations I have used, when I have the feeling they'd be hard pressed to give me the main elements of the sermon it came out of.

So I've been trying to incorporate more visual and tactile media into what I do and am on the search for more materials. Stumbled across this today. From my initial impressions, the idea and execution are pretty good. Modern Parables



There's a sample lesson and both teaching and student materials available on the website for use. The whole collection is very reasonably priced considering the production values. Really very impressive and I'm looking forward to more from these folks.

There's a list of reviews and quotes on the website. Since I'm SBC and missionally minded, I noted this one. Robert Lewis did an amazing job in his context, so when he recommends, I listen.

“Today’s culture has become known as ‘the screen generation.’ Learning comes primarily through seeing. That’s why I am so excited about Modern Parables. It offers the truth of God visually in a way that speaks to our modern world. What a great new tool for the church! I highly recommend it.”

- Robert Lewis, D.Min., Pastor-at-Large, Fellowship Bible Church, Little Rock, AR

Check these out. Why not use what does the best job at reaching into the culture today with the timeless message of the gospel?

How Can We Help Them Learn To Love Him?

The other night, my bride of 34 years having fallen asleep out of exhaustion before I was able to do all the locking up and turning off that is the final approach to sleep, I did something out of my forever love for her. I talked to our son about what it means to be married to your one true love.

About what it means to be in a relationship with her where we both love God and each other fiercely.

About how that love and trust has empowered me to do things for God and for my family that I know I could never, ever have done without it.

And how I pray every day as does his mother that God will bless him in the same way with a wife who will help him become more with God's help than he could otherwise have ever been.

Don't know why, exactly, except that I felt and she felt like he was unable or unwilling to understand that love and what actions result from it. He's a great son, fine young man, very bright, and on the cusp of an awesome life. But at 24, he's never experienced what I have beginning at age 20 to this very day.

Unconditional love from someone (other than his parents) totally sold out to him.

So we talked, and he listened. I know he won't understand fully until it happens. But he's been prepped to know what it looks like through 24 years of action and reaction between his parents, and now I've tried to put some framework around it.

In the last few months, I have done some real soul work on who God created me to be and how He has used me, particularly here at New Hope. I've looked hard at my successes and harder at my failures. And I'm learning. And I'm growing. More dependent on God. More confident in Him. And more dissatisfied with where we are.

The information superhighway of the typical Baptist church - those data dumps we often call Sunday School, Wednesday night Bible study, even the sermon - just don't seem to be producing people who love Jesus and live out of that love for Him. We have educated a group of people in the doctrines, added some background context, and even trained them on how to follow.

But only a few do.

Some live their lives in sort of a moral no man's land, using Christianity to avoid the mines. Some live using Christianity as a veneer masking their sins. Some just show up and endure, then go home.

How can we teach them in such a way that they learn to love Jesus?

Once that happens, then transformational discipleship can begin.

Just saying

"The Bible is there to enable God's people to be equipped to do God's work in God's world, not to give them an excuse to sit back smugly, knowing they possess all God's truth." - N.T. Wright

How Much Should We Expect?

If you've been reading the last few weeks you're probably aware that I have been seriously questioning the current discipleship model that we and most every other church is using. I've been investigating what has been and is being used in every nook and cranny of the internet as well as on my shelves.

Day before yesterday, I was thinking and praying about our youth and it suddenly occurred to me that I could not confidently call on any of them to give a sincere, coherent, and unforced testimony of what God had done in their life.

So last night with the permission of the husband and wife leading the current youth study, I stepped into the room and basically told the youth that they needed to step out and step up.

Told them it was time they ramped it up and became part of the Body. That every Christian should be able to give a testimony of what they were, what Jesus did, and what He's doing in their life to make them more like Him. That I wanted to see them lead this church out and into service and not just sit back and let everyone else do the work.

Last thing I did was issue a challenge for them to tell their story on Sunday morning to the whole church. That I would make time available anytime one of them wanted to tell the rest of us what Jesus was doing in their life.

Then I was out with a quick look at the leaders and a "let me know who's willing to do what a Christian does."

Craziness. Totally unplanned. Not from me. So we'll see what the HS is up to.

But dear readers, shouldn't we expect every follower of Christ to be able to tell their story of what Christ has done and is doing in their life? I feel as though we've lowered the standards to met the population at large and walked away from what a disciple really is.

What do you think?

How Do We Help Them Grow?

The past few weeks, I've been engaged a a real struggle over how well we at New Hope are helping people become more like Jesus. I've struggled in prayer over it. I've thrashed about with the issue over on a pastor's forum I'm blessed to be a part of. I've consumed mass quantities of information from every source I could find.

The lethargy of movement in growth and reluctance to pursue Jesus with abandon that I see as lacking in many of the good people of New Hope is a real issue for me. The question of whether they are believers hasn't been one I've puzzled over. It is the lack of perceptible fruit in their growth.

When you look ahead by looking at the generations coming along (at least here) There doesn't seem to be any help coming along. If I went to the RA leader tomorrow night and asked for a boy to give his testimony in Sunday morning worship, (I may be mistaken and wouldn't that be wonderful) I doubt he'd be able to find one who could do a credible and sincere job of it. What does that say about how well we are training the next generation of leaders?

We've been doing the typical SBC plan for as long as I can remember - here and in the other churches I have been a part of. Sunday School, Wed night classes, and for a long time worshiping together on Sunday night. We've used Lifeway, Group, Serendipity, Willow Creek, Saddleback and other curriculum.

It doesn't seem to be transforming people.

Yes, they mostly know about the Bible. But absent the heart to read it like a love letter, what does that mean? I can remember coming home from dates with Bunny and lying there in bed running back through everything that happened - what she wore, what she said, how she looked at me. I wanted to know everything about here. I wanted to love what she loved.

And yeah, I know this isn't the same as a romantic love relationship. But if there's a relationship that matters, shouldn't there be a real desire to know?

So I'm searching for what to do to change the status quo. Surprise, surprise.

Leader so far - discipleship triads. There's a great article about that type of intensive discipleship here (click on it for link). Jesus certainly did large groups, but for the more serious instruction he broke those down to 12 and even went farther to the inner three.

It will take time. We cannot add it to everything else we are already doing. Some activities need to die. I know that whatever we change or cancel will have some people complaining about the changes. So be it.

Stay tuned. More as this story develops.

A Blank Sheet of Paper - Discipleship

I've been discussing this with my friends on a pastor's online forum all week. Thought I'd toss it over here and get some feedback. I'll drop come of the comments from over there in too.

Got home from another Wed night and Bunny and I had a long talk about what she perceives the kids and youth know of faith and the Bible, combined with my little talk with the adults last night on functional atheism.

So I went to bed praying about changes and woke up with it still on my mind.

I have a blank sheet of paper in front of me. Limiting this to discipleship and not veering off to preaching, fellowship etc...

What programs/structure/benchmarks/times and venues would you draw up if you were starting from scratch?

For children

For youth

For adults

And what would you use for a curriculum in large or small group situations?

I'm really trying to get a handle on what I need to see getting done wherever God has me in this area.

I know, I know - but this is really important to me. I got to the point in Romans 4 last night and realized that precious few have anything like the faith of Abraham.

Just a note, if you are looking for info on Bill Martin, formerly at FBC McMinnville, or need to contact Bill, LMK by email.

Religiously Educated Consumers Part 2 - the Questions

So...

What's the best activity tied to church to help people grow to love Jesus and learn to live for Him?

What's the minimum requirements for a person to be involved with in their daily life to grow? (I'm thinking spiritual disciplines but feel free)

What's the best venue for transformational discipleship? (SS, small groups, 1 to 1, other?)


How do you discern whether people are growing?

Is there a point when a person shouldn't be in a SS or small group class? A BTDT point? And if so, what for them?

Inquiring minds who are a wee bit fed up with the status quo want to know. I'm developing some thoughts and ideas but really would appreciate some input.